Making Compassion Practices Accessible for Anyone: With Amy Luckey [Podcast]

Posted on May 15, 2024 by Nate Regier / 0 comments
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The academic study of compassion is often disconnected from the lived experience of it. What does compassion look like, sound like, and feel like when we bring it down to ground level? That was the inspiration for this conversation with my friend and compassion coach, Amy Luckey. Amy, who specializes in working with neurodivergent adults, believes that compassion practices are best learned by experiencing them, not talking about it.

Practical application is my jam, so I invited Amy to join me for a free-flowing conversation about how we make compassion practices accessible to anyone. This episode is full of twists and turns, some provocative views, and some perspectives that might surprise you.

Enjoy the video, audio, and transcript. If you like what you hear on The Compassionate Accountability Podcast, will you please like, share, and review on your favorite platform?

What’s In This Episode

  • Who is Amy Luckey and what is her focus?
  • Why isn’t compassion more common in the workplace?
  • How do we approach compassion experientially?
  • What does compassion mean for each of us, on a daily basis?
  • Compassion isn’t about being nice or saving others.
  • Accountability is an integral part of compassion.
  • How do we be present and allow suffering in relationships?
  • Nate challenges the notion that compassion is about alleviating suffering.
  • The difference between fixing and witnessing.
  • How conflict and compassion work together.
  • Compassion isn’t about what we do TO others, but who we are WITH others.
  • The power of being seen.
  • What are the implications for hard-driving, corporate culture headed for burnout?
  • Small daily compassion practices.
  • Amy’s approach to coaching ORPO – a template for doing conflict with Compassionate Accountability.

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Listen To The Audio

Read The Transcript

Nate Regier: Hello, I’m Nate Regier, founder and CEO of Next Element, a global consulting and training firm helping organizations transform their cultures with Compassionate Accountability®. Thanks for joining me on the Compassionate Accountability Podcast where we get to meet amazing people who are bringing more compassion to the world. I hope you’ll find something useful in this episode. And if you like what you hear, please subscribe, rate, and review to help us reach more listeners. Be sure to visit our website at, where you can learn more about our work and check out all of our previous episodes.

All right, so I’m Nate Regier, CEO of Next Element, and the host of the Compassionate Accountability Podcast. And I’m here with Amy Lucky, a new friend of mine and a thought partner. And we’re here because when we first met and started talking about compassion, we were both so excited about what’s going on, what we’re doing, and we had lots of questions. And so we thought we would just have a conversation because we think maybe we’re not the only ones. And so Amy, I’m curious if you’d say a little bit about who you are and why we’re here in this room.

Amy Lucky: Oh my gosh, thank you. I’m really looking forward to this conversation. So I am an Executive Coach for leaders, and honestly, I think of myself as an Executive Coach for the rest of us. And in particular, I work with people who are neurodivergent, whether diagnosed or not, but just recognize that they’re a little different than the average bear. And so as we work through whatever their challenges are or the goals they’re trying to achieve, we recognize the importance of that neurodivergence on who they are and how they move through the world. And I come to this work as much from my own personal experience over the last decades, as from a professional journey, from academia to consulting to organizational consulting and culture, to now working one-on-one with individuals.

Nate Regier: Thank you. And I know so many of our listeners and our peers and our clients are on similar journeys, having done different things, and this whole notion of neurodiversity too, is so important. I know I’ve had a couple people on my podcast that are talking about different aspects, whether it’s designing workspaces, whether it’s just appreciating neurodiversity at work and what that means. I know we do a lot of work in personality diversity as a type of diversity, but it centers around compassion and where does compassion fit into all of this? And I know one of the things I resonated with when we were talking before is that we’re both practitioners at this point in our life. We want practical implementation. We know that compassion matters and it’s important in the workplace, but the real question is, well, how do you do it? I’m curious where you are on that journey of what’s relevant.

Amy Lucky: Yes. I mean, it’s at the core, it’s the relevance, it’s essential. And where I am with it right now is much less about trying to convince organizations and leaders that compassion matters, and more, let’s do it. Let’s just be present with each other. So right now, I’m doing that through my one-on-one relationships. I think that so much of what is challenging about current organizations is the lack of experience of working with people that are compassionate, that do trust you, that do share mutual respect. That there’s not as much modeling and experience with a healthy workplace as I would find ideal. And so it’s hard when we talk about it, because it’s so abstract. So it’s also about just experiencing being in a room with folks that bring a depth of personal awareness and self-understanding and valuing of their co-workers. How’s that? It’s not really clear. I’m not telling you here’s the methodology with folks.

Nate Regier: And what I’m hearing in there is this journey, this struggle of, we know it matters, and yet how do we talk to people and interact with people around what it means, what it feels like, what it is? And as you were articulating that, I think you probably represent a lot of people’s struggle that are on this journey. And how do you get people on board? And you mentioned, “Well, they’re just not accustomed to experiencing it.” Which is one thing. And then as you did that, you started talking about a lot of different aspects, which probably make up compassion in your mind. Do you ever get to the point where, we need to have a common definition or a common understanding of what are we talking about? Is that important?

Amy Lucky: I know it’s important, and especially when we’re talking with business leaders and especially when we’re working in a place, this world, this culture that we’re in that is very cerebral and very focused on being clear in our understanding about vocabulary. My approach is much more experiential. So I don’t talk about compassion. I don’t think that the way to get folks on board is talking about it more and even sharing data about it and anecdotal stories. It is through experience. And so I come at this, my background includes mindfulness and also moving meditation and a much more somatic, experiential approach to this life. And actually, it’s fun for me to hear myself say that’s my background. Because no, my background is completely cerebral. From here up, my whole life was let’s live up here in this brain space. And it’s more the last decade when I finally was like, “This is not working. I personally need to be on a much more integrated path.” And so my path over the last decade has been reconnecting with my whole being, not just the cerebral.

So for example, so I haven’t been doing a lot of speaking or a lot of facilitating in the last year because I’m deep in my one-on-one practice. But in 2022 or early 2023, I spoke at a conference on facilitation. And it was interesting because they called us speakers and yet it was a conference on facilitation, hosted by Voltage Control. Great folks out of Texas. And so I actually didn’t speak, I used my time to facilitate. And that facilitation was around silence, individual reflection, deep listening with each other. It was a very quiet, intimate experience with 200 people in the room, but it brought people back to themselves and then brought back to the person sitting right next to them. And discussing, we were talking about inclusion.

But the way I structured it wasn’t such that we were talking about, well, how do we define inclusion? How do we define diversity? All those things that are very important. It was, “Let’s get back to you and your own experience.” And I think that this is not too disconnected from the academic scientific experience in that or process. Because what I’m asking people to do is be their own scientists, that their data is just as important or is essential to understand, how do you move through the world compassionately? They need to experience it and gather that data from the inside rather than only hear it and get it from the outside.

Nate Regier: I love that, and I love that instead of talking about it, let’s experience it and then discover through being our own scientists, what’s happening, what are we experiencing? So interesting thing, I don’t know that I’ve told you, is that I have some background in experiential learning and education like ropes courses and group facilitation. And was trained by one of the gurus, Jamie Remsberg, who’s actually on our team, in how do you facilitate the experiencing of the things? And then we reflect on that experience and we discern and we learn through that. And I want to give a shout-out. I am feeling led to give a shout-out to a good friend of mine, Tom Leahey, who is writing what I think is going to be the seminal book on this whole notion of choice in learning, and how we learn through experiences. So shout-out to Tom. The book’s going to be amazing. So you’re advocating this idea of, we could talk all day about it, we could get academic about it, we could worry about all these perfect definitions, or we could just start being and start experiencing.

Amy Lucky: I’d interrupt that. I would actually say it’s a yes and… It’s a yes, and… I absolutely am so grateful and so admire and appreciate and draw upon the amazing research that is happening in all these spaces that relate to humans at work, and really just humans in social interaction. And then I’m saying, and let’s get out of our heads and let’s experience it. It’s not an alternative. And in many ways, the way a part of the story of how I came to really focusing on experiential is having been at a global software consultancy where we had amazing people training programs.

Amazing programs, which we could absorb all the great information. The messaging was spot on, and then people go back to work. And so what I did there was very informally, was create space for people to process work through for their own, “What does this mean for me? What does this mean for me today here and with you?” And so that, I don’t see that experiential or that more intimate experience as instead. It’s complimentary, because we wouldn’t have had as rich conversations and as deep reflection if we hadn’t also included some shared vocabulary and some shared understanding. So it’s a more, yes, and.

Nate Regier: So, as you’re facilitating these experiences and inviting people to get into these spaces, whether it’s in a large group or whether it’s with your coaching clients, you’ve named a couple components of things that I am guessing are part of compassion in your mind. Would you humor me and describe for me what you think some of the components of compassion are? Because as you can tell, I’m a sucker for definitions. I love it, and I try to codify this stuff. Because we’re in the business of scaling. And so replication, we have to know how this toaster works. And you’re in the business of deep transformation with individuals, but what would you say are some of the fundamental components of compassion?

Amy Lucky: Well, I will cheat and say that your construction of compassion with accountability is essential. And I don’t think it’s compassion with accountability. I think that it is part of compassion. I mean, in operationalizing, how do we move through the world compassionately. Compassion isn’t about being nice, it’s not about saving and helping, it’s suffering with. I think that for me right now, one of the things that is most essential is allowing the suffering, whether it’s self-compassion or sharing compassion with others. I think that our society, we go quick to, “It’s okay, never mind. It’s fine.”

Or, “It’s not that big of a deal,” Or, “This is just too uncomfortable for me to be in your presence while you’re experiencing something that’s very difficult.” And so where I am right now in what I’m highlighting in my practice with my clients and in my own life is being present with suffering and being okay. So it’s allowing that suffering and allowing that the imperfection in ourselves and others and moving from there. So it’s not the full definition of compassion, but I think that that ability, I think it partly allowing comes from the willingness to see and be seen.

Nate Regier: I love that word allowing, and I don’t know that I’ve used that so much in my work, and it’s such a great fit because when you were talking about some of the things you facilitate, you talked about deep listening, presence, whatever, and they all go together to come into this idea. If we define compassion as struggling with other people, then that eliminates this idea that somehow the struggle has to be removed. But the only way that we can struggle with people is by allowing the struggle. Not judging it, not trying to fix it, not trying to avoid it. Like you said, situations where, “Hey, I don’t want to get near this suffering because I can’t handle it.” And my only response would be to try to make it go away or pretend it doesn’t exist or minimize or reframe it or whatever. Or go on the attack of anyone who’s causing it. So that’s special to me. And this idea of allowing, and a couple of weeks ago, one of my blog posts was about this notion of being with.

And I shared a children’s book that my daughter, who she just got her master’s in clinical psychology, and at graduation, her clinical director read them a storybook, a children’s book about being with during suffering. And it was the same book that she read the class on day one. And the whole message was, it’s a beautiful book. But in my blog post, I also highlighted a clip from the movie Inside Out where Sadness just sits and is actually the most therapeutic intervention because Sadness doesn’t try to fix anything. Sadness allows sadness and sadness, it allows. And it’s majorly transformative because the elephant, I forget the elephant’s name. By simply being given permission to be sad, is able then to value himself, value his feelings, start to mobilize his capability to now go back and deal with the world and reenergize him himself and his agency and his dignity. So thank you. That took me on a couple of tangents, but I really appreciate you sharing that.

Amy Lucky: I don’t think that is a couple of tangents. I think that’s one thread that is really essential. You started by saying, “We’re talking about struggling with people as compassion,” But then as you described the book and the messaging, it’s about being with. So we’re not struggling together. It’s not about, let’s struggle together. It’s about just being and allowing us to be in that moment of suffering. And Parker Palmer is someone who has really informed my thinking. And in particular, he put out a piece years ago about the human soul doesn’t need to be advised, it needs to be witnessed. And it’s a very personal. Again, his writing is not based on the research, it’s based on his own experience and what he’s seen in his lifetime. But when we can just be with and allow.

Nate Regier: Well, now you’re inviting me or I’m feeling invited to branch my thinking out here. So we’ve taken this definition of compassion, com-passion with suffer. And we’ve added the word struggle in there and you are saying, “Wait, let’s distinguish the two.” Struggling with, and being with or being alongside people in the suffering, is maybe different than struggling. It doesn’t necessarily mean it. So here’s where my brain’s going. I’m just going to say this out loud. I’ve never really shared this ‘til today, but we also do a lot with conflict. And sometimes I can show compassion when there’s no conflict, you’re suffering, I be with you. There’s not an issue between us. We don’t have conflict. So in that motion, being with, allowing, suffering alongside… Or not necessarily suffering, but being with is really critical. But then there’s situations where I got to beef with you.

I’m your supervisor and your behavior is not matching up, or I’m a parent and my child is not meeting the expectations. So now that’s introducing conflict into the relationship. And I think in that situation, struggling with might be a better definition. I’m just thinking out loud because we’ve got some grist. The sand has been introduced into the shell. How are we going to process that conflict while still witnessing each other’s humanity, while still calling each other to a higher mode of being, while still believing in each other’s best self and being accountable? Because you mentioned accountability is important. So anyways, all this to say is I’m thinking there might be a difference between, being with in compassion and struggling with in conflict.

Amy Lucky: Yeah, it was interesting, the question, I also want to go back and hear exactly how you framed that question. How can we be in conflict when we’re also seeing the other person and holding them to a higher self and seeing ourselves and our challenges. As you said that I thought, “How can we do conflict without that? How can we do conflict well without that?” I love your emphasis on conflict. I’m a huge fan of conflict. Having been conflict averse my entire life, again, going back to the last 10 years of a lot of work and a lot of growth. The oh, good conflict, you get to a different place. In the workplace I think if we do conflict well that’s going to affect the quality of our work and take us further in relationships. I think we go deeper. And so the struggle with… Well, it’s interesting, again, you’re talking about struggling with, not against.

I think the depth of self-awareness, and again, I don’t mean that simply in an intellectual way, but awareness of our whole being, including what motivates us, what we’re experiencing in the moment, physically, emotionally, and being honest with ourselves. I have a beef with you. Taking that, “But why do I have a beef?” Be more curious about our own internal experience and our own motivations. Am I mad at you or am I mad at my dad? Honestly, we’re all bringing our own stuff in. The family of origin stuff, that does not stay at the door when we walk into the office. And to recognize that’s the other person that’s sitting across the desk also has their own stuff, their own story, their own challenges, their own patterns. Which most of the ones we grow up with are not constructive as adults. And I think we can understand that, recognize it, be curious about it, and still get into the conflict and actually do that better than if we just tell ourselves stories about the other person, say. If we don’t do that, what are we doing? We’re mostly telling stories.

Nate Regier: That reminds me of a wonderful quote from Brene Brown. I love her book, Atlas of the Heart. It’s just such an incredible… Anyways in there, there’s a line she talks about where when we’re trying to develop emotional fluency, emotional awareness, self-awareness, to your point, she suggests sometimes that when we’re having conflict with somebody, we should finish the sentence. “The story I’m telling myself is…” And that’s so important because it invites us to turn it back and say, “My interpretation, which comes from all my stuff, is as important a part of this conflict as anything you might have done in our little beef.” And I can make it all about you, but I often ask people when they’re trying to blame someone and say, “Well, you made me angry or you really triggered me.”

Well, if we put 10 people experiencing the very same thing, I’m not sure everybody would be triggered like you. So is it really about that person or is it about our uniqueness as humans in how we interact with what happens to us that also needs to be part of this equation? And so that, I think, that’s a common challenge that happens when we’re training, is people always think, “I’m going to learn something so I can go do something to other people.” You ever experience that with your coaching clients that they try to make it about everyone else, and it’s really a process of, this really is about me and starts with me.

Amy Lucky: Absolutely. Absolutely. And yes, Brene Brown that I should have put the footnote in when I was speaking as well, absolutely directly ties to Brene Brown’s work. And my introduction to her work was through Daring to Lead, which synthesizes so much of her previous work. And I find it a really fabulous tool that I’ve shared with team members when I was in the corporate setting. I think the thing that I’m finding with my clients that strikes me, is it is less so much that it’s the other person’s fault, it’s the other person’s problem. As much as that’s the situation, and I have no agency. Because it is them. So hear clients say to me, “Well, I can’t demand this from the other person,” Or, “I can’t change that other person. That’s the way they are, or that’s the context I’m in.” I can’t change the situation, therefore I have no agency.

And so rather to be more clear minded about what the context is and how we can engage with it, which includes letting go of the stories about the other folks. And I think that another piece, if we were starting to construct the book, which is not here yet. The notion of being seen. I think that so much about when my clients are talking with me and we’re working through how they’re navigating conflict, they don’t feel seen and they don’t see the other person. And again, this comes back to slowing down. There’s a stillness. There’s a stillness that we need in order to see ourselves and also to create space to see the other person.

And again, when I was in the corporate setting, the profound impact of just seeing other people. I entered an organization where based on my interactions with folks, I think there are people there that never felt seen and just never felt seen or known or acknowledged. And again, this isn’t about me getting to know their most intimate details about their life outside of work or everything about them, their whole experience, their lived experience. But just pausing, literally and just pausing and seeing somebody and being there for that moment. I mean, Jane Dutton and Monica Worline’s work and the work coming out of Michigan is amazing about high quality connections, and actually somebody else that I’m not citing, have a high quality connection and give people that gift of being seen. It’s not a big lift.

Nate Regier: Yeah. I was on Facebook yesterday, somebody posted an inspirational thing, and it was this research on rats that when put in water, like a beaker of water to swim and tread water, they’ll go for 20 minutes and then they just give up and they sink and drown. And that’s about the average number of minutes or whatever. But if the researcher lifts them out of the water right before that time at about minute 19, dries them off, lets them rest a little bit and puts them back in the water, they’ll tread water for 20 hours. And the conclusion that this person reached was, “Look, we need to adopt this never give up mindset. We have to think of what you could accomplish because on the other side of that 20th minute is all your greatest accomplishments.” I’m like, “Okay, let’s hold off on the inspirational poster because there’s a missing piece here.”

The rat was seen, and that is the difference is somebody saw them, saw their struggle, believed in them, and held them. And because of that, they could go for 20 hours, not because they adopted some amazing mindset. And so the question I had on that post was, maybe we should be thinking about seeing people in those moments and how many people are never seen, never hear, “I believe in you.” Never have someone pick them up and dry them off and put them back in the water. Not rescue them and take the water away. And so I just felt like we have to be careful some of the messages we send. And I was inspired to share that because what you said about seeing people is maybe the thing that gets us to go 20 hours instead of 20 minutes.

Amy Lucky: Should we go 20 hours?

Nate Regier: No, no, that’s burnout. But I think you really hit on another thing, this idea of allowing, this idea of seeing. I wonder, we’re both into practical application in different ways. I wonder if we could talk just a little bit about, so what does this mean for making it real in real corporate America, in real businesses that are running and burning the candle at both ends? What are you doing? What are you thinking?

Amy Lucky: Well, right now, what I was just doing was just taking a moment, a big breath, settling. And the reason why I’m talking about that is… Stop. Stop. So there’s a part of me that’s like, if we’re running and burning the candle at both ends and how do we do this? And how do we implement it? If that’s the energy we’re bringing to this, we’ve lost. We’ve lost if we’re just going to be like, “How do we make it happen? Let’s go, let’s go, let’s go. Let’s make it work.”

Nate Regier: You’ve been doing this.

Amy Lucky: Actually, we need some radical change. And you’re talking about you do things at the large scale, and I’m more right now really focused on the individual. And of course they’re really connected, and where do we create space? Is it possible to create space in the workplace? Slow down, take that breath, allow for the fact that we are humans and move from there. How do we do that?

Nate Regier: Well, Amy, what are some practices or tools that you offer and work on with your clients?

Amy Lucky: Yeah. Well, it’s interesting. One of the things that’s really important to me is that there’s so much amazing work going on out there in the field of mindfulness, also in obviously around relational work and conflict resolution and somatics. The work in somatics is amazing and breath work. And what I try to do or what I do is very small. I’m not going to try to distill and teach people all the things. We all don’t need to be experts in somatics or experts in mindfulness. And so what I offer to my clients is often tiny little doors, little opportunities to experiment and play with, moving through the worlds differently, and baby steps in small ways. And so some of it is really, so much of it is about the pause. There’s so much out there right now. It’s fabulous. The practice of rain from Tara Brock, she didn’t develop it, but she has evangelized it, which is around recognizing what’s happening in the moment, acknowledging our feelings, allowing for them, getting more present to who we are in that moment, what we’re experiencing.

So, if there’s one main thing, it’s the pause. It’s the pause. And also I offer very small grounding activities people can do while they’re in meetings. Taking a pause, you can do in the middle of a meeting, nobody needs to know. Before I took my big breath and I made a big deal. I talked about it, and you probably even heard it and you could see it, but that didn’t have to be so visible. Although when it is, I find that that invites everybody else in the space. I don’t need to tell you. You don’t need to know all the reasons. I mean, it’s fabulous you can, and ChatGPT can tell you all the science behind why a breath is valuable, but all you need to do is start with taking the breath.

Nate Regier: One of the best servers on my daughter’s volleyball team. They all have rituals before they serve, but hers is particularly memorable because of the breaths and the way in which she breathes, and it’s very visible, but it is such a calming, grounding thing, and she’s so consistent in her serving. Well-

Amy Lucky: May I just add one more thing, which is that I’m grateful for all the people who have found strategies and ways and have methodologies that they share with the world. Whether it’s around breath work or whether it’s around habit formation or around leadership and feedback and conflict. How do you do conflict? My approach to coaching is not as a teacher and a trainer. It’s creating a company, and I create space for folks to find their own way.

And I lean deeply into experimentation, and I trust that we all are, and this is partly why I’m so interested in working with neurodiverse folks, is to recognize that your recipe for productivity or whatever it might be, is not going to be my recipe. And I can learn from yours and I can take pieces and I can experiment and I can see what works, but I need to find my own way. And so as a coach, I accompany people on that process and invite them to tune in, to allow for their experience wholly, not to disassociate. And then also to be able to see the other people in the room. So much of it is, for me, is about slowing down in the moment, slow down to go fast.

Nate Regier: Well, and you just being with you, I feel that energy, and I can imagine that coaching with you, you’re creating that container and that’s part of what you provide, and also living and breathing the things. And so this whole idea of the experiencing is coming full circle, as you talk about that. I don’t know if our passion is maybe as far away from that as possible or maybe exactly at the same place. I don’t know. But the process that we teach called ORPO is a really simple, easy to remember template for, how do I walk into these challenging situations, maintaining compassion, and not letting conflict differences, disagreements, disruptions, throw me away from that? How do I have it? And it has to be like stop, drop and roll for adults. That’s how simple it has to be for us to do it when it matters like a breath, like a conflict.

So, we’re passionate about trying to find ways to scale ORPO as, how can we teach it? How can we help people use it when it matters? How can we create an environment that supports it? How do we help equip people to use it in multiple situations so they feel like they have some resilience when it matters? And I see so much value for we have to develop these capability of slowing down these practices, this presence. We have to challenge the conditions and the environments that we have just taken for granted that are killing us, and that don’t create the best place for us to be. And we have to be able to start practicing different ways of communicating that reset the rules of engagement, for how we’re going to be with each other.

Amy Lucky: I actually think that it’s very, I love the work that you’re doing. And again, we need these tools and techniques, and I think that what we’re talking about, I think they’re very connected. I think it’s an and. It’s a yes, and. Because for us to practice the techniques and tools and methodologies well, it can’t be from this disassociated cerebral strategy tactic. This is the strategy. Here’s the methodology. I’m just going to follow these rules and it’s going to work out for me. I think what I’m talking about is, and it’s rooted in self-knowledge, self-understanding, presence. Again, and you’re making me want to think more about this, but they’re related and complementary, and I don’t think that we can just move through the world following the techniques, whatever it is, around relationships at work, if we’re not also accepting ourselves as humans, connecting to ourselves as humans and recognizing we’re working with humans in the room.

Nate Regier: I feel like we’ve been talking for about four minutes and it’s approaching 45 minutes. I can’t believe it. For the benefit of our listeners, we probably should wrap it up or maybe we start thinking about episode two. Amy, wow. Thank you for just jumping in and being willing just to have a candid conversation and for just thinking aloud and feeling aloud and being and doing the things that matter to you here in this conversation. And wow, for inviting me to places that I hadn’t thought of and different ways of thinking about things. I really appreciate this time with you.

Amy Lucky: Thank you. Thank you so much. What a fun conversation. And yeah, you get to edit it too, so you can make it shorter.

Nate Regier: Great, great. Well, we’ve talked about a lot of different things. I hope whoever’s listening or however, whatever we do with this, I hope you find some value. And really what I would like is if you’re listening to this, what struck you? What was invited in you, what resonated? I’d love to hear, I think so often when we put stuff out there, we don’t know how it hits people unless you share. And even if you’re talking with your friends or family, that’s great. We’d love to hear from you, so drop us a line, make a comment wherever you found this and read it. We just love to hear because I think if anything, we’re just trying to keep the conversation going.

Thanks for joining me, everyone. I hope you enjoyed this episode of the Compassionate Accountability Podcast. What struck you? What can you take and use today? I’d love to hear from you. And if you haven’t already, pick up a copy of my new book, Compassionate Accountability: How Leaders Build Connection and Get Results. If you’ve already read the book, I’d appreciate your review on Amazon. Contact us today to learn more about how Next Element helps companies transform their cultures with Compassionate Accountability. And remember, embracing both compassion and accountability is the secret to great leadership and the roadmap for thriving cultures and strong brands.

Copyright Next Element Consulting, LLC 2024

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